Dual Runner Not

The finest wear rods and... we can prove it!

When snowmobilers ask me about dual runners my smart aleck response is
"I wouldn't give them to someone I don't like"
But I am serious!
Another anti-darting product

If you have been satisfied with Dooly's or Slim Jims
you will love the added CONTROL our system delivers.


1) The most obvious drawback is they create four ruts in the trails.

2) They are only a temporary fix for darting because they do not address the causes of darting. If you are the 4th or 5th sled down the trail with these rods you will be back to darting. Therefore, the more of them there are on the trail the more darting you will do.

2005 - Ski-doo's Precision Skis have proven my point, similar profiles DOO follow similar ruts. The first season on the market, users of Precision skis did not complain about darting. The second season, darting was still not an issue. Once the number of Precision skis reached critical mass during the third season, users started complaining about darting. At the beginning of the fourth season, snowmobilers were being told to replace the Precision skis ASAP by other snowmobilers. Also, it became apparent that the Simmons and Pricision skis were now darting following each others ruts.

On ice and pavement both the Simmons skis and Precision skis get squirrelly. The reason is each carbide is trying to follow, it's own path of least resistance.

3) We have much less expensive solutions to darting. Your wear rod costs will about double per mile with either Accu-Trak or Dooly Rods Anti-Darting Carbide Costs. Darting Solutions

4) It does not make sense to cover your plastic ski with 2 1/2 lbs. each or more with a rigid metal plate. Unless they now believe that plastic skis have not lived up to their press, they may be onto something.

5) When you turn the skis, the outside carbide will begin to raise off the ice. Due to the 10 degree tilt of the skis, the outside carbides will raise up to 3/16" off the ground. So, when you need to turn the most, only the inside carbide of the outside ski will be working because of inside ski lift.  This applies to dual runner skis as well.

The Precision ski's outside carbide in a full turn will come off the ground
The Precision ski's outside carbide in a full turn, with the front end fully compressed, will come off the ground

The Precision ski's outside carbide in a half turn will come off the ground
The Precision ski's outside carbide in a half  turn, with the front end fully compressed, will come off the ground
 

7/8"
11/16"

3/8"
1/4"
 

   
         

Dooly  7/8"

 

Ski-doo Precision Ski  4-1/2"

 

Simmons Ski  5-3/16"

Deuce bar    
Deuce Bar- 15/32"   Yamaha Tuner Ski- 2 1/8"   Simmons GEN 3 - 3 3/4"
         

Split Rail Ski has a 4" spread | Simmons - Gen 3

Outside ski lift


Woody's Dooly R&D    Dooly Darting   Rage Shimming   Hardcoresledder runners    Skis With Multiple Wear Rods   
Lift Demo    Simmons vs. Ski-doo   SnowTech Magazine - (Clueless)


Dual Carbides...do they slow you down?
   Totallyamaha.com - Forum, jim-bob, Aug 8, 2005                           

Well, if you are not already confused, lets see if I can push you over the edge. On my sled ( 04 Warrior ) I ran the Woody Doolys and thought they were great, no hunting, however as has been stated here the drag on the front end was considerable. I was thinking of the Simmons when I bought a used 04 Warrior for my wife with the Simmons. The two set ups were the same as far as the hunting goes ( or actually the lack thereof ) and the Doolys were around a hundred dollars and the Simmons around $400.00. The big difference was the front end drag with the Doolys I almost never had to use the brake and my mileage was about one-half to one gallon more per tank full / and since we ran the same speed and distance, it was a very fair comparison. Now for the kicker / when the Doolys wore out I put on a set of Bergstrom Triple Point Carbides with 3/8" Ski Savers, at around $100.00, and I was EXACTLY equal to the Simmons all the way around. No more drag / easier to put on the trailer / same fuel mileage / If you want the best of both worlds do what I did. Also when you call in for the carbides have him send you a set of shims that go under the rubber boot on the ski saddle / later /.


HCS.com
Dec. 28, 2007
jwill
 
I just went out for a test ride to try out my new Bergstrom skegs.  All I can say is WOW!  The sled actually turns now, even on pavement.  I replaced the stock runners with Woody's duallys a couple years ago to get rid of a darting problem.  The darting problem was gone, but so was the steering.  The sled pushed like a dump truck in turns.  I tried various suspension adjustments with no luck.  The Bergstrom skegs with 1/4" Ski Savers and the shims provided with the kit make my sled turn like a slot car.


Dec. 28, 2009
 
Hi Scott,
Just wanted to let you know how my new skegs worked out. Drove up north to the U.P. of Michigan this past weekend. Removed the Simmons skis that I have on my '07 F8 and replaced them with my original skis with your triple point skegs with the ski savers and shims. WOW! Now my sled steers easier, doesn't dart and got better gas mileage! No problem in the corners, point and go, no plowing, no track spinning.
Thanks Paul


Simmons or SLP????
    Totallyamaha.com / Silverbullet, Dec.29, 2003

I can only speak for the Simmons vs. SLP w/ Dooly. After 600 miles I sold the Simmons skis. They increased the steering effort and with 2 other sleds in my group using them, Simmons LOVE to follow another set down the trail.

As far as experience with the Simmons, they don't dart much UNLESS you are following tracks made by the other Simmons or Ski Doo dual runner skis. When you are Simmon's even dart (sometimes violently).

I surely am a Simmons fan and have been for years (in fact Verlin Simmons had me demo and report back to him on a pre-production pair in 1994). I ended up breaking one of them and he has since beefed them up on the critical areas.


6" Slim Jims Testimonial


Snow Goer
January 2003
Page 90
"Are All Aftermarket Skis The Same?"

"While they virtually eliminate darting, they still wanted to follow grooves in the trail - from other Simmons Flex-skis!"

Despite The Hype, Similar Profiles Follow Similar Ruts

Every ski cannot be different, but being able to get out of other's paths, grooves or ruts is the key.

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